Empirical Evidence that the Indianapolis Church, also known as ALL AT HIS FEET, is a cult is so overwhelming. Look at the emails, the factnet list, and the similar testimonies of ex-members. http://www.indianapoliscult.com/allatmikesfeet/PensacolaExperience.aspx
Quote from the Indianapolis Monthly "A former member of the Columbus church set up the Web site Indianapoliscult.com, which contains signed testimonials from ex-members like Tim Szazynski and Dennis Elslager and testimony from estranged relatives outside the group." I'm going to get it for this. Dan Z., the leader in Columbus, doesn't consider me a member. I guess Indianapolis Monthly did.
I got to experience this group first hand from 95-97. I was attending Indiana State University with someone who worked with Brian Bearden during his summer break between his junior and senior year. I attended a few of their meetings and only met Mike Peters twice. Neither meeting was memorable. I played soccer with them on Sunday mornings, I went to softball games, attended small bible and prayer meetings, I even helped watch several of the children while some of the adults attended a Mike Peters led meeting. I remember Ted S., though I am not sure he would remember me (I am sure he knows my former friend who is a part of the group now)When I went back to school with my friend who knew Brian B. we kept in touch and several of the leaders came to visit us at school on numerous occasions. In the beginning this was all very exciting. For any of you who have been exposed to these guys you will know what I am talking about. They present a very "fresh" view of things. You feel as if you are being given a chance for a higher spiritual relationship. Looking back on all of this, it is obvious what was going on. After my friend graduated he eventually cut off ties with his family and moved in with Brian B., until he was "ready" to live on his own with the group. Another friend of mine was directed to the Columbus group during this time. I went back to school, kept in touch and fully intended to become part of this group. As I started to educate myself on a level that most certainly would not have been tolerated within the group I started to think about my friend who cut off ties with his family. His parents were two of the kindest, most giving human beings I had ever known and during a time of difficulty during my life they acted as unofficial surrogate parents (my parents moved out of state and I stayed to finish High School). I simply could not accept that the way they were being treated was God’s will. Once I wrapped my head around this things were never the same in meeting with the group. Following another year of school I went back to Indy still intending to become part of the group, but my interactions with them had changed. I am not sure if they sensed a change in the way I questioned things or I was really being difficult, but on a phone call one evening with Brian B. and another leader I received another phone call and switched over to it, when I came back I was being bad mouthed. They were essentially belittling me. I waited and listened for a few minutes and once I cut in it was over. My eyes were opened. These godly men were no different than anyone else. Once the veil was lifted all of the other issues immediately became readily visible. This is a bit of a long story, but to sum up…one of my best friends (Andy H.) was taken from me by this group. Andy H. was also taken from two very loving and caring parents. The Columbus group took another of my best friends from me. They eventually asked him to leave and it crushed him. I want people to understand how subtle most of this is at first. It is a very (superficially) loving environment at first. You feel special, you feel important and most of all you feel and express elitism. It is human nature to want to be part of something bigger than you. It is also human nature to lean towards an exclusive group who look down upon others and that is what they do. This group uses pretty much every classic mind control technique you can find. It is built into the structure. They control information, they control your free time, they CONTROL period. If you challenge them on something spiritual you are accused of being a sinner. I fell for all of it. I feel very bad for having done so. Hopefully with this site and continued exposure groups like this will eventually fail.
Topic Poster: Willie Tasby
Topic Subject: Indiana Monthly Link to Entire Article
Total Replies: 74
Here is the link to the entire article. The earlier link was incomplete. "Willie" http://www.rickross.com/reference/general/general943.html
There is a group (several families) from Cll in Indianapolis that has recently move to Atlanta. I am not sure if they broke off to start another movement or if they were somehow dismissed. If anyone can comment I would appreciate it.
Do you think this apology is sincere?
Hello! I'll try to keep this as abbreviated as possible. I stumbled across all at his feet when I was searching for answers about institutional church. I've always felt there were problems with the standard church that were nearly impossible to reconcile with the Bible. For the last four weeks, I've been studying several books there, such as "Back to the Basics" as well as some of the books from Frank Viola, "Pagan Christianity" and "Reimagining Church." I've been discussing a number of topics and concerns brought up from both sources with a number of my friends. As expected, some like it, some hate it. There's not too many opinions in between. One of them mentioned this site as a retort against what "All At His Feet" is teaching. I've spent a few hours reviewing what you have here. There certainly seems to be a lot of articles defaming the self proclaimed leader of the Indiana movement. After some consideration, a number of questions come to mind. 1) First of all, my prayers are with the victims here. I can only imagine what it would be like to invest so much of your life to what appears to be an authentic church experience, to find out it was otherwise. 2) It's clear that in reading the testamonies, the way this organic church thing started out was pretty good. However, (and correct me if I'm wrong), MP began to usurp leadership and control using techniques such as fear. It would seem that this type of power trip would normally be kept in check by the members of the church via Matthew 18 type of reproach. Was this tried? If so, why did it fail? Was it possible that the other members of the church shared guilt for not addressing this in the earlier stages? Or, is the model, as I understand it, flawed? 3) I'm sure that after the pain you went though, that putting sites like this up as a warning to others was a good idea. However, pointing out the problem hardly seems like a missed opportunity. In your opinions, what do you do now? Do you return to institutional church? Reform a new organic church in your new cities? Something else? What would you say to someone like me that would not consider joining "Mike's Movement" par se, but is looking for an answer on church living? The fact is that many thousands (if not millions) of people, like you were, are looking for answers to a church system that seems, for the most part, artificial and shallow. While this has been a tragic experience, has God been able to bless you through this experience somehow with a new insight on this concern? Thank you for your time! I appreciate it.
Topic Poster: "baxter"
Topic Subject: 1 Thess 2:7 But we proved to be gentle among you,
Total Replies: 3
I am SO thankful that God is nothing like Mike Peters! http://www.gty.org/PDF/ParentalPicturesofSpiritualLeadershipPart1.pdf If you prefer to listen to this rather than read it, go to http://www.gty.org/Shop/Audio+Lessons/52-5 If after today, this link doesn't work, you will probably find it in the archived section for June 17, 2009 "Parental Pictures of Spiritual Leadership Part 1" "baxter"
Topic Poster: "baxter"
Topic Subject: Mike Peters group remains in the shadows
Total Replies: 1
Mike Peters group has been around for approximately 20 plus years by his own boast. However, they mainly remain in the shadows and is not a household name. If I were to ask you if you have heard of John McArthur? What would you say? James Dobson? John Piper? Would you know of them? Further more, would they know of each other? I believe Mike Peters has kept a low profile, as he has said on one of his blogs, because public scrutiny would expose the group for what it is. Also, I think people in third world countries are vulnerable due to their trust and newness to the gospel and the Western influences. No one who lights a candle puts it under a bushel unless... "baxter"
Indianapoliscult has expanded to Twitter Follow Here: urlhttp://twitter.com/danrepent/url
Topic Poster: "baxter"
Topic Subject: "a HUNDRED mothers brothers and sisters."
Total Replies: 90
I found Michael H apparently posted a brief (on Jake's part) dialogue he had with someone who had a question about how to live out Mike's "a HUNDRED mothers brothers and sisters." doctrine. *shudder* No divorces there in 25 years. But he doesn't discuss the NUMEROUS people that they have exiled over the years whose marriages didn't weather the storm caused by the coercive tactics, manipulations, brainwashing, etc. The many wives who treat their husbands like their worst enemies and show contempt and disgust at their very existence. Besides the ones that are exiled, he has women living there now who don't respect their husbands because they don't see Mike as their "god" as the women do. People need to be "free" to sin. God has allowed us to be free to sin in order that He can be glorified by our obedience. It isn't so there in Mike's little kingdom. If they don't have wayward teens, it's because they are trapped inside a world where there are no exits. They don't have any freedoms to be tested. They are in compliance as they have witnessed what happens when one is deemed (whether there is any biblical merit to it or not) an infidel. http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/amish/TAA5KE2UG766R2KV1/p2#lastPost michael h Indianapolis, IN Reply »|Report Abuse|Judge it!|#26Jan 12, 2009 Hi Jake 🙂 Yes, Jesus did teach (not us :)) some very powerful things about "first birth" and "second birth" and "THESE are my mother brothers sister" and "to the CONTRARY, blessed is he that"... and "a HUNDRED mothers brothers and sisters." So, when the SECOND birth is given the priority by the Maker of Life and Savior of souls, it's pretty important that we embrace what HE said about it, and also respond, of course, to lukewarmness and love of the world the way HE does, if we are actually connected to the Head. I'm sure you know your Bible well enough to know those Verses, even if you haven't actually witnessed Acts 2:26-47 Jesus-Life yet. Now, having said that, OF COURSE to be "worse than an infidel" by not caring with ultimate responsibility for wife and offspring is NOT what Jesus advocated. But, the Bible doesn't offer us "either-or" choices. ;D wants BOTH because He SAID both.:); Frankly, if we do it JESUS' WAY, we've actually had ZERO divorces in 25 years, though the religious world's statistical average means we "should" have had TWENTY or THIRTY or more divorces. And, likewise with the "christian youth group" average in the church world of losing "75%" (according to Barna and Graham and Promise Keepers and other researchers). Doing it GOD'S way ("a hundred mothers brothers sisters" AND not being "worse than an infidel") results in 95% fewer "teen tragedies" than christendom ADMITS to on average. All of that to say, as JESUS did (not us :))-- "Seek FIRST the Kingdom, and all these things shall be added to you as well." God's ways are amazing, though they will (as the Rich Young Ruler and the Pearl Merchant discovered) cost you EVERYTHING.:); http://books.allathisfeet.com/organic_church_... It's a great question, honestly. I just think you would LOVE to have Ruth and Esther and Priscilla and Mary and Mary and Mary all involved with your wife and your marriage and your children every day, as well as Paul and Peter and John and David and Moses and Fred and Apollos and Daniel and Oscar involved in your life and marriage and children every day. Eph.4:11-17 isn't about SERMONS, it's about relationships. Acts 2:42-47, 1Cor.12, Heb.3:13... SO many things ignored by Christendom, thinking it won't matter. But, the benefits of those relationships listed in Eph.4:11-17, Heb.3:12-14, 1Cor.12 etc are STAGGERING. How could THAT list not help your marriage and child- rearing?:) Much more could be said, but there's a start.:); Grace and Kindness to you in the Lamb, -mike, with the church here www.AllAtHisFeet.com www.HouseChurch.com www.HisEmptyGrave.com www.RevolutionDancing.com On Oct 3, 2008, at 6:33 AM, Jake Siemens wrote: Hello, Just a question concerning blood families. I realize you teach that we have all been adopted into Kingdom of God and he is our Father and as Jesus said we now have 100 brother, sisters, mothers and lands. My question is how do you live this out in practicality? Being together as much as you are, where do you find time to love your wife as Christ loved the church? What about keeping the heart of your own children if now instead of 3 children I have about 60 along with every other father in our congregation. I am being very challenged and blessed reading many of the books on your site and listening to many of the teachings but I haven't seen this addressed very specifically yet. It seems to me that God does put more emphasis on my relationship with my one flesh wife and our own offspring? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. For His Names Sake, Bro Jake Siemens For His Names Sake, Bro Jake Siemens "baxter"
Topic Poster: CII is a Cult
Topic Subject: I was personally discipled by Mike P.
Total Replies: 14
I have read many of the posts here and on the other sites from time to time, including the CII sites. My preference is usually to stay out of this all because sometimes when we focus too much time/energy/focus on what is negative/wrong it can sometimes lead us in directions we would not desire. I believe in choosing to spend my resources in order to build up and encourage rather than tear down and foucs on negatives, although the latter is sometimes necessary. However I do have a perspective that most do not in that I was personally disicpled by Mike P and lived along his side for quite a long time...time enough to see for myself what was real and what was not. Like most who have had some level of involvement in CII directly---not just reading or listening to their materials--but personal interaction with their members and leaders, I too had stirrings deep inside me that caused great discomfort. So instead of leaving it alone or burying it within I chose to give myself completely to Mike P's direction/teaching/mentoring/leading. Let me be very clear on this---I was personally discipled by Mike P. I was with him day and night as often as possible. What I will speak of I have seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears first hand. At this point I have not yet decided how far I will open this dialogue because it will greatly depend on your interest as well as perceived intent for my desire again is not to "pile on" or "camp out" merely on what is obviously very wrong with CII and Mike P's teaching/leadership. Rather I will offer my experiences and obversations as long as it seems right and purposeful in doing so. I have no doubt I will be personally attacked and slandered in ways to disuade you from listening to anything I have to say for this is their way...I know this because I employed this very strategy when I was there as well...it is common practice there at CII and they have become quite adept at it. What I will speak of will be true and any efforts to attack or malign my character I will not defend for I am not here to defend myself but rather to speak of that which I have seen and heard first hand. CII's tactic is and always has been to "attack the person" who speaks against them (in order to discredit their testimony...just like a lawyer would do in a trial) rather than responding clearly to the issues being raised. I saw this over and over again in the time that I was there and it has not changed to this day.
I interacted with CII both before and after their move to Indianapolis 20 some years ago. I was under contract at the time and could not join the group as I might have otherwise. However, now I am trying to contact one member of the group to see how her growth in Christ over the years in the group compares with my own growth in Christ from outside the group. I realize that both Mike supporters and Mike detractors read this forum and what I want to know from either side is, why is it so blasted hard to find out if someone is still with this group or not. Her family hasn't been allowed to see her for years. No friends outside the group have any idea what became of her after she married another group member. I would have hoped that after 20+ years with the group my friend would be mature enough to be trusted with outside contact. But I can't even find out if she is still with the group. If she had been disfellowshipped or moved to another community would she have reached out to her family or would she have maintained her separation from them in hopes of being reconnected to the collective? I would welcome specific help in this search, but this format seems too public for specifics. I am not interested in taking my friend away from the group, only in discerning whether her participation with the group has been as spiritually beneficial as all their writings would want me to believe. Any insight or assistance would be greatly appreciated. Peace and Joy
Topic Poster: "baxter"
Topic Subject: Mike Peters new way to get inside your head...
Total Replies: 4
http://www.appstorehq.com/jesuslifetogether-prayerjournal-christianbooks-andfreemusic-iphone-230057/app Description The Jesus of the Bible is radically different than you may think. No ritual, no mind games, no attendance-based entertainment and speech shows, no dress-up, no hierarchy, no money-begging. The real Jesus, The Eternal Life, is amazing and life-altering. Jesus walks on water, raises the dead, and dazzles the heart and mind. Y'shua changes, empowers and enlivens all who cross His path. Jesus and His Life Together as "church" with "one another" is likely beyond anything you've ever imagined. Embark on the limitless journey Father has Designed for your Destiny! You will definitely find "mind games" in Mike Peters' group. Hierarchies...check But you will not find his subjects "enlivened". Most anyone who ever once showed joy, love, enthusiasm is now harsh, critical, and judgmental. If you listen to their teaching, it definitely will be beyond anything you ever imagined and it won't be GOOD. "baxter"
Topic Poster: "baxter"
Topic Subject: Mike Peters (Indianapolis, etal) the marriage Guru
Total Replies: 12
I have some things I want to bring to the light here, and I will begin with this teaching found at their website: http://letters.jesuslifetogether.com/Divorce-and-Remarriage Divorce and Remarriage Hey, How do you guys respond to people you come in contact with who have been divorced and are now living in a second marriage? I’m not asking for you to give me a “how to,” I just want to know what you have found the Lord leading you to do in the past... Your sis, Certainly we are WELL aware of every Scripture in existence on the subject. Of course. Catch this though: Practically, I know of no other way of dealing with “marriage and divorce” and a thousand other such issues than to DISCERN in the midst of committed “from the least to the greatest” daily Life. Every situation is different, with its own specific issues and nuances. In one case, we might be certain as we walked in depth for some time with a married couple (“smelling the fruit” with no preconceived notion, but watching to see what GOD was saying in the midst of it) that God is very unhappy with whatever they had done and whatever had transpired. The legal paperwork that allowed them to claim they were married (because the “state” said so) is nonsense, and they were obviously living in adultery and under God’s judgment. There would always be chaos and contradiction and an odor, as long as they perpetuate this faulty covenant, while still under another. In another case, AS WE WALK WITH THEM, it becomes clear that whatever had happened and whatever details had marred their past, God honors their current state (marriage—a second for either of the partners), and so would we. How anyone could EVER make a series of “doctrinal” statements to “define” it all (knowing full well that there are many reasonable, sensible, and honest interpretations of different passages in 1Corinthians 7; Mat.19:9, etc.) “forever more”... well, that’s just haughty and foolish. It MUST be discerned in the midst of LIFE (which few people HAVE, so they must resort to their minds and their own private interpretations). “The LIFE becomes the Light of men.” “The CHURCH: the pillar and foundation of Truth.” All of that to say... there isn’t a “how to” (you guessed right), and most would be VERY hard pressed to “guess” correctly even 50% of the time. Since most folks don’t LIVE as the “Bible” says to live (but rather as an individual in their hidden lives, or as a Body of Believers that lives nothing like what God has called His People to as a Church), “interpreting” nuances and complex situations will not be possible for them. They will perpetually judge an unrighteous judgment (by allowing what must not be tolerated, and forbidding what God has honored) because they are in an unBiblical environment trying to interpret the Bible. It would be like sitting all day, every day, in a Denny’s restaurant at the counter eating donuts, commenting on the deep mysteries of the universe, the global economy, brain surgery, and astrophysics. It’s just talk if you’re not in the MIDDLE of the Life that SPAWNED the Bible. THAT’S the only way to really know... “the LIFE became the Light of men.” 7/22/2001 beware of the subtleties: 1. I know of no other way of dealing with “marriage and divorce” and a thousand other such issues than to DISCERN in the midst of committed “from the least to the greatest” daily Life. Of course, unless you are in one of the little pockets where Mike is the guru, then you have no ability to discern spiritual matters. 2. It MUST be discerned in the midst of LIFE (which few people HAVE, so they must resort to their minds and their own private interpretations) What Mike is saying, is that unless you are in each other's face, controlling their lives, and living by the unspoken covenants of Mike Peters' philosophies, you CANNOT know whether or not a marriage is sanctioned by God. So unless Mike Peters is your guru, you have absolutely no spiritual discernment. 3. and most would be VERY hard pressed to “guess” correctly even 50% of the time. Since most folks don’t LIVE as the “Bible” says to live (but rather as an individual in their hidden lives, or as a Body of Believers that lives nothing like what God has called His People to as a Church), “interpreting” nuances and complex situations will not be possible for them. They will perpetually judge an unrighteous judgment (by allowing what must not be tolerated, and forbidding what God has honored) because they are in an unBiblical environment trying to interpret the Bible. I don't know if you picked up on the judgment that is prevalent on Mike Peters' lips where he renders it IMPOSSIBLE for you to be able to interpret matters of God unless you are living in an environment that is not only a replica of theirs, but where Mike is the guru. "baxter"
I realize that I am fairly new to this discussion, but as I have been reading and trying to understand some of the dynamics that affect Mike Peters and his group, I have made some observations that might give a new perspective to the struggle that so many of you are facing as a result of him and his teachings. In many ways Mike Peters and his followers are still following in the heritage of the Restoration Movement. He and many of those who follow him have come out of the Churches of Christ, which sprang up about 100 years ago in the wake of the Restoration Movement. This heritage has a dramatic effect on the way Biblical or Theological discussions take place. As a result, those who have not been part of this movement can easily get frustrated with Mike’s method of building an argument which relies heavily on “proof-texting” and questionable presuppositions. Conversely, those who have never been outside this heritage often find it difficult to defend against the extremism of his conclusions, because he is consistent with most of their own presuppositions. To them, it has been the hurtful practices of the group and not the arguments that have been offensive, and as a result they have trouble explaining why they have left or why they would never join. The Restoration Movement developed as a reaction against the denominational fighting that ran rampant in the United States as immigrants shook off the state church denominations of their homelands. From the early days of the Restoration Movement the primary assumption was that unity amongst Christians could be found in restoring “New Testament Christianity”. The insistence was that unity of practice (based on the writings of the New Testament) would bring about an end to all the denominational arguments and divisions. As a result, the Restoration Movement developed a particular way of “rightly dividing the Word of God” that I call “experiential theology”. Under the banner that said, “speak where the Bible speaks and silent where the Bible is silent” this experiential theology asked one simple question, “What did first century New Testament Christians do?” Any practice that was not mentioned in the New Testament was to be eliminated to preserve unity, and any practice that was affirmed in the New Testament was to be required for the sake of unity. However laudable the original desire for unity may have been, the history of the Restoration Movement has been anything but unifying. It has given birth to three non-denomination (The Churches of Christ, The Disciples of Christ, and The Christian Church) and has been as full of division, posturing and relational damage as was any of the histories of the denominations against which it protested. In Mike’s followers and even amongst those who have gotten out from under his radical ideas, the call to “New Testament Christianity” still resonates in their souls. They rightly want to believe that there is an answer to the spiritual apathy and religious pretense that characterizes much of Western Christianity. The observable problems that existed in contemporary Christianity 100 years ago fueled the original Restoration Movement and it fuels Mike and his followers today. They mock anything that develops outside their circle, and they coral into their fold any who are likewise dissatisfied with what they have found in the more traditional churches, especially the more traditional Churches of Christ. I must confess that I, too, am an heir of the Restoration Movement. I was raised in the Churches of Christ, and I, too, have longed for an understanding of New Testament Christianity that did not end in sectarian squabbling or heavy handed legalism. However, I have found my answers independently from Mike and his followers. For me, the answer has come from a single distinction on what “New Testament” means. From the perspective of the Restoration Movement (and Mike), it means a period in time covered with God-breathed authority in the 27 books of the New Testament. Thus, discovering and restoring the ordained principals of the first century church is the very reason to study the Bible. Once a principal of first century Christianity has been distilled out of the New Testament then it can be applied with authority to Christians in the 21st Century. Those who disagree with the distillation or the applications are dismissed as not being real New Testament followers of Jesus Christ. However, since the word “Testament” is derived from the Latin word for Covenant, “New Testament” can also be understood as having to do with the New Covenant. Since God has revealed Himself as being a covenant keeping God then the New Covenant is a more natural focal point for understanding than is the first century. Consistent with my heritage, I still believe that the key to unity between believers and obedience to Christ is found in simply being a New Testament Christian. Except that this means understanding and living in light of the New Covenant with authenticity and integrity every day and not just trying to recover some elusive glory day of centuries gone by. ;d didn’t just send Jesus to die for our sins. He sent Jesus to complete the Old Covenant and to initiate a New Covenant through his blood. The four principal parts of this New Covenant (conscience, identity, education, forgiveness) free us to live a dramatically different kind of life characterized by peace, joy, faith, hope and love, but the New Covenant does not require us to recreate first century Christianity in the 21st century. The 27 books of the New Testament are the inspired description of those who first lived by the Light of the New Covenant, just as the 39 books of the Old Testament are the inspired description of those who lived in the light of the Old (Mosaic) Covenant. However, those books are not a prescription on how we must live our lives under the New Covenant. If the New Testament is a prescription for all time then all of the practices that differ from one group to another really matter and everyone who disagrees with the “true keepers of the flame” is in serious spiritual jeopardy. In this case, if Mike is as right on every point as he thinks he is, then the rest of us better repent and move to Indy. On the other hand, if the New Testament is not a mandate but a description of lives lived by faith in Jesus as the mediator of the New Covenant then we are free and responsible to live our lives by faith in that same Jesus without being “required” to recreate their lives or anyone else’s. This core difference renders Mike’s little sect impotent to claim any kind of special insight, power or sacred honor. They are free and responsible to live their lives as they believe Christ is leading them, but the idea that they have discovered some special insight that makes them the “true keepers of the flame” is preposterous. Don’t let them bully anyone into thinking that they have such a claim. Peace and Joy
Time and time again the people in Indy run around in fear of rebuke, disfellowship, judgment, and the WRATH OF MIKE. Below is a letter that was written to Mike after this person was accused of looking lustfully at a couple of the women. The accusers never went to the accused, but went to Mike first. Shocked by the "out of the blue" rebuke, this person responds in fear and terror of the "wrath of Mike". Not only that, notice how this person thinks of Mike as being omnipresent such as in the statement, "It's not like I don't know you can't see from where you are anyway." This is an example of the effect Mike's authority has on people AND how many times I have witnessed that the accused don't even know that of which they are being accused. Nevertheless, IF they accuse you of something and you don't "see it" as they do, you will be "shunned" until you come to the same conclusion. This is a subtle form of brainwash and manipulation and "fear" control. Mike works to tear you down so you have total dependency upon him. The accused's letter to Mike: "Ok. I'm still sick to my bones and shaking before you and God on this, but I'll tell you what I know I am aware of. Understanding fully that God could stike sic me dead on the spot for lying to you and the Holy Spirit, I hope you'll accept this as a totally honest reponse. sic As things relate to the incident in ____, I honestly do not recall looking at _____ or ______ in a wrongful way, nor was there one single wrongful or lustful thought that I am conscious of. That's the way I remember it. What good would it do for me to hide the truth at this point? I have already made myself to be something less than a fool in this and other incidents Mike. There is nothing left to hide. I'd tell this to you looking right into your eyes. I don't remember anything like this happening, and certainly no conscious thought of anything sinful was there. I'm NOT saying I didn't do it, however. I'm not going to stand before you, God and those witnesses and say "No way." I have come to see, if just a little bit, how very wicked my heart is, and I know there is a way. This is a serious charge, and I know no one would report this unless it was just so very obvious, maybe a kin to the way a pagan man looks upon a woman in a wrongful way. When one sees that, there is just no question. This is how I take it that they saw me. This is why I am so heart-broken, torn, and just physically sick with remorse. And to make it even worse, I didn't even know I did it. Since leaving Indy, Mike, I have not fought the battle in the area of straying eyes and a wicked, straying heart as it relates to pagan women. Again, I don't recall *ever* having a lustful thought for another sister *ever*. But the above is bad enough, and it sickens me to think this has translated over to where others in God's house are ill-effected. It's only been within the last couple of months that I have taken seriously my fight in this area of sin, and it has just been too late, I guess, to avoid the ugliness at the ________. There's more I could write you about concerning something that was revealed to me two weeks ago which I think is related to this and every other bad incident that I can think of (i.e. the boasting in those living rooms in Indy, interactions with the __________'s several months back, the blow-up in my family which caused us to have to leave in the first place, etc). But I don't want to grieve you any further with the contemptableness of these things in my life. If you're interested, I'll tell you everything of which I am aware. I'm understanding a little bit why these things have been happening, and the darkness seems to me to be very deep. I'm really upset about it and scared. If you want another brother's honest view of things, please call _____. I have been contact with him everyday. It's not like I don't know you can't see from where you are anyway. I'm ready to move on Mike, really, and accept God's verdict on my life in *any* and *every* area. As I've already stated, I've already proven myself a complete fool, and I have nothing to loose, and no where to go. I'm pained to the core at the hurt I have caused you in this. My deepest and teariest apologies to Christ (what little I know of Him), to you, ____ ____, and the witnesses on this. As for the future, I'm admittedly scared, but willing to do whatever including scrapping any plans for moving to another place. *If* I did go to another place, I want to go there, keep my mouth shut, seek to really serve with my hands and heart, and consider my self least, able to learn (and needing to learn) from anyone around who calls themselfr a believer. But I'll do whatever seems right to others. I'm still somewhat of a libo over this and need help. What do I do next? How do I repent completely and thoroughly? What should I do? If I need to stay completely away from other believers, I'll do it. I just don't know..." This person hasn't a clue as to what he was guilty of. But someone said they did it, so he couldn't argue, he just had to twist his brain to fit the accusation. Following is Mike's response. It appears that these "witnesses" did not go to the "guilty" person first, but to Mike. In fact, it was a regular practice to "seek equipping" first. "_____, there is no doubt that you did it, twice, and that two people saw it both times. It was VERY obvious -- no chance of a mistake on their part, as bad as they wished that it were. "The lamp of the body".... However intentional of conscious it may have been is irrelevant, I guess you could say. There was no doubt in my mind, long before this happened, that you need (if you end up in ____) to keep your mouth shut there, as you suggested, for a couple of years or so. And without the buddy-buddy thing with females. Period. (_______, etc); The "messiah complex" is too deep in your bones, as well as the other things that you need purged of, obviously. I'm not trying to "give you a hard time", but just make it as clear as I can that you need forty years on the back side of the desert with some stinky animals pretty bad -- if you are ever going to sort out who Jesus really is and what that has to do with you and your family and others. I remain convinced that you desire right things, but you are going to have to encounter the Living GOD sometime, somehow and die. Elsewise, you'll never live. I'm wanting you to Live -- but you're a long way off from Jesus at the moment, _____. Further, by far, than you need to be. I do hope that you'll get real with Him and get it Right. For His Sake, Mike" "baxter"
Dear All At His Feet Cult Forum Community, I'm starting this topic to serve as a launch point for some perspectives that I haven't seen offered here before. It's not that some of the ideas aren't touched upon in other topics, it's just that the trajectory that those ideas are on, fueled as they are by much bickering, doesn't seem like a natural starting point for someone like me who has, as near as I can remember, never once posted on this or any other forum about Mike and the folks he is associated with in Indy and other places. Who am I? While I don't care who knows my name, I would rather not have search engines picking up on my name, so I'll trust that all relevant parties will know who I am and just say that I'm John L who was part of the original Searcy crew and who moved to Indianapolis and lived among the people there on and off between 1988 and 2005. While over the years I have heard from a few people who have left, I have had absolutely no contact from anyone who is a part of what's going on in Indy since 1997. So it's been about 14 years. The reason I mention the length of time that I have NOT been in contact with Mike, Andy, Brian, Nick, Dave, etc., is that I feel that this span of time has provided me with ample time to have processed everything that happened and come to some conclusions. For example, I am far away from the emotions that I was feeling at the time such as anger or sorrow. What's more, I long ago went through the grieving process that comes when losing so many close relationships. And maybe most importantly, I'm not on anyone's bandwagon at this stage. I have nothing to prove, nothing to defend, nothing to hide, no fear of personal disclosure, no agenda other than to try to be fair to everyone who is trying to process all the information that is being thrown around about the doctrines, the people, and the leadership. It will be interesting to see what happens. Hope nobody minds me starting this topic. Again, I'm a person who lived in Indy on and off for 7 years, I was there--heard, witnessed, and participated in some of the most formulative stuff that happened there, and no active participant has been in contact with me for 14 years. Hummm. What will I say? First thing's first. Official Statement #1: Man are there every a bunch of crybabies posting on this site. More to come. -John L
What can I say…. I spent twenty years collectively learning my personal truth on the machine we call religion. The traditions the rote of man made null and void the inner whispers, the guiding voice in my heart. It imprisons the mind and clips the wings of the spirit. I had a love affair with the harlot. It took years to free my mind and spirit from her grasp. She is a self contained pond. She has no inflow, no outflow. She is murky, dark and stagnate, having the stench of rotting things. She is dark and draws to her the slimy creatures of the earth that hide in the camouflage of her shadows. She will let nothing in and gives nothing. In contrast her majesty the mighty river. Other rivers and streams join her along the way. She has her origin from high places and She has a destination and when she reaches it she evaporates and returns to the heavens. As she ripples and thunders along she nurtures all living things. Freely the animals and birds of the sky come to her, drink and are refreshed. The fish use her to travel where they are destined to go. She draws to her cool, crystal clear waters, families, lovers and friends. She is a life giver. She holds in her waters no secrets She is life with origin and purpose. She sings along the way come to me all who are thirsty, weary, broken and tired and I will give you rest. We have as humans settled for far less. This beast religion being sold to us under the pretence she will bring life. It is a trap that steals clarity from us and sucks hope from our lungs. She represents death of the living soul that resides in every man. She traps us in her waters like a helpless animal desperate for food is entombed in the hunters snare. She represents dieing. Although created by man she has become a rouge entity unto herself. Destruction is her name. She draws to herself the pious, proud and arrogant. And they in turn prey like a crouching predators on the broken, weak, lost and desperate. She is a liar and a thief. I suppose for a time I was filled with bitterness for all the years I felt I had wasted. It was one of the hardest things to do separating my God from the beast we call religion. I hurt for those that can not and for those that struggle as I did with a deep discontent and lack of understanding to resolve it . As I now see it, it is like mixing oil and water. But my cup was so shook that the two almost looked like they were one. I suppose I had to go to the wilderness to allow the two elements to settle . It was clear after years of remaining still the two had not, could not and would never mix. That I could continue my journey of living, leave religion behind and walk once again with my creator. I feel at peace now. It still sickens me and I feel the need to not slander others but pass on these lessons to those that may be in the same place. There is no “man” to blame here. No names or faces attached to the frustration and anger. Just hurt and a sense of loss for all those that I loved and had to walk away from as religion drew a hard line in the sand. So many wonderful, beautiful people. But to all those that struggle with the same pain, there is hope! After so many years I finally feel free. I knew God had finally succeeded in freeing the mind and spirit when I could listen to others speak their opinions and new ideas and not become defensive. I could take a honest look at everything I believed and not have fear cripple me. Even find myself excited at the prospect of new ideas. I could trust my internal compass and weigh facts fearlessly. I believe if a man can not study critics writings and allow all that he or she stands for and believes to be honestly scrutinized, if fear grips the heart when faced with new ideas the mind and spirit are imprisoned. marcie dillard
Topic Poster: "baxter"
Topic Subject: Random Letters/Dialog (also list of those exiled)
Total Replies: 33
Coming Soon "baxter"
"The following is a factnet exchange between Lisa M. and supposedly Dan Z. Dan Z. is from the Ohio group. Never knew him, never met him, only knew his name. It has been my suspicion that it really is Mike that is doing the dialoging here. For one, notice how he makes reference to his location being in Indy: "I have also become aware just two minutes ago that you and your brothers were involved in some VERY SERIOUS SEXUAL SIN against a young one here." Secondly, why would Dan Z. from Ohio be having this conversation with Lisa, and who would have made him "become aware just two minutes ago"? Many of the accusations against Mike is that as soon as you stand up against him, he is quick to bring up all of your past sins and tries to threaten, shame, humiliate, and manipulate you with them. Notice how the first address made to Lisa is that she was: "remembered by many as being sweet and seeking Jesus. It's seems very out of character to those who knew you, both young and old, that you would take up with such sordid characters here" As soon as she didn't respond the way it was expected of her, "Sigh" came out with the "sins". (see http://factnet.org/vbforum/showthread.php?7577-Extended-Families-Hurting-from-CII/page2 Now, for my side of the story about the spankings of our daughter Leah that is discussed in the info below. I never had any peace from day one in my time in Indy. I battled a lot of thoughts. I remember hearing in muffled tones about the newspaper article where someone had accused Indy of being a cult. It was kept hushed and downplayed. One time, as I was walking through my apartment, I thought, "I feel like I'm being brainwashed, maybe this is a cult?" Anyway, fast forward to Sept. 1994. My mother in law had hip surgery. We were in Indy. Relationship was already kept to a minimum. But I felt I needed to call her after her surgery to see how she was doing. By God's grace, John and I and all my children were able to talk to her. She was doing great and was really glad to hear from us since we weren't really generous with love and time. She passed away 15 minutes later. We went back to Michigan for the funeral and Gay and Lori also came. My children were crying at the coffin and looking at the photo that Gramma had given them of herself and Papa (John's dad). Lori told me to not allow the children to cry like they were at the coffin or to treat her photo like an idol when they were grieving the death of their grandmother. Something began to happen to me that I didn't understand. I was struggling with a feeling of restraint (the best I can explain it) and then I entered into deep despair. It wasn't because of the death of my mother in law, but despair of the fear and terror of God...a sense of hopelessness. We are back in Indy. I am sitting at the table talking with Gay and Gale. It was not even a month since my mother in law's passing. I had just put Leah to bed and she was calling for me in a very sweet voice asking if she could get up. She had just turned 3. I went into her room and decided I just wanted to hold her, so I brought her out to the table. Gay and Gale looked at me as though I was the devil himself. I said, "What? I just wanted to hold her." Gay told me I had "baby idolatry". I said, "I do not". Upon that, the evening came to an abrupt halt and Gay and Gale left. I told Gay, I didn't always see things right away, but that God would show me later. The next morning, I called Gay to see what sort of tone she would have with me. It was as I expected, cold, distant, and obedient to the equipping she received from Mike or his lieutenants, "SO, what HAS the Lord shown you last night, Lori?" I was terrified, cause He hadn't shown me anything. Within a day or two, Kari came over to our apartment to watch our children while John and I went to Tim and Monica's for a "meeting". Debbie F. was there. She did most of the talking. She was very sweet. She looked at us and told us, "It isn't because of any sin, but, we are asking you to leave because you haven't given yourself to the group." I thought I would be elated, but deep paralyzing despair took hold. I felt like I had just received the sentence of hell. In less than two months of my mother in laws death, we were moving to Kentucky. We had been "encouraged" to not go back to Michigan where we would have people giving us carnal sympathy. The day we moved, I found out I was expecting our 5th. There were people there to see us off with hugs and words to go after Satan's juggler. Kentucky was frightening, life was frightening. I realized I was terrified of being alone. I felt that no matter what I did, it was sin because we weren't a part of "God's Kingdom". I also realized I didn't know how to make decisions, I had lost my critical thinking skills. I didn't know how to live. I groaned and agonized daily of despair. It was the darkest days of my life. I couldn't pray, I couldn't read my bible, I couldn't do anything. I tried to put on a face that did not reveal my despair. By God's mercy and Grace, we found a Calvary Chapel that was just beginning. The only reason I didn't feel like I was "sinning" by being with them is because the Spirit of God was evident in this couple's lives. She reached out to me much. We'd do things together and spend time together which helped with the sense that I was sinning if I wasn't doing something. I would often call Mike to "seek equiping" as a good little Peterite would. I would begin treating the pastor's wife the way I would people in Indy. She started to jump through the hoops I was putting before her, and then she stopped and said, "I'm not doing this anymore." She realized it was NOT God. She and her husband began investigating about this Mike Peters's group and came across Agusta, and Agusta confirmed their suspicions. It was a cult. One night, at their home, the pastor and his wife gave us a book, "Churches That Abuse" by Ron Enroth. They told us they believed the group was a cult. Of course, I disagreed, but pondered their words and the book in my heart. When they talked about the fruit of it, they said, "Look at you, you are in such bondage". The time came for the birth of our baby. I was planning on having the Calvary Chapel couple to watch our other children. Then Lori Y. calls me out of the blue telling me they have a surprise for me. They are going to take my 4 older children to Indianapolis. Well, being someone who loved her children and had "baby idolatry", letting my children go to Indy was NOT what I wanted. But, the truth was, I was still in bondage and afraid of what it would say if I didn't let them go. So I acted excited about it. When they got there. I was told that Leah would be staying with Julie. Julie has never been a very kind and caring person. Why they thought it was so important when we were in Indy to live in the hallway with Julie and Doug was a bewilderment for me. I saw nothing of Christ in her. I had had her blow up with me a number of times. I had her roll her eyes at me in superior fashion, and it was also clear that she really didn't like my children. I told Lori that I didn't trust Julie. Lori assured me that Julie was desiring to follow Jesus so I could trust the Jesus inside of her. (Ahhh, defeated again, my concerns invalidated again, more brain washing because what I sensed, was being told it wasn't). I was also told that IF they take the children, I had to be in agreement that whoever had the children had my permission to spank the children if they needed to being that we were so far away. In my heart, I did not want to give this permission. But, I was fearful and in bondage, so reluctantly, I complied. I was thankful that our son's birth was quick and I didn't call them until after he was born because I didn't want them to come, I wanted the Calvary Chapel couple to watch the children while we were at the hospital. So he was born before they got there. While they were in Indy, a problem arose with Leah not saying, "yes, Julie" after Julie addressed her about something. She spanked Leah, but Leah still would not comply. Eventually, Julie called me in hopes I could get Leah to say, "Yes, Julie". I wanted to plead with her, but didn't want to be condemned for handling it by begging her to say yes to Julie and I figured they'd be listening. Leah wouldn't budge. The spanking continued and then Debbie W. took over with the spanking. Still she wouldn't comply and they called me a second time. Again with no avail. Then they called Mike and asked him what they should do. He told them that she should be "as a publican and a sinner" and she lived the rest of her time there unable to play with the children or eat with anyone. She was 3 almost 4. When they came home, I knew if I showed I was "happy" to see her, I'd be guilty of something. So when they all came running in, I hugged the first three and suppressed my feelings for Leah in front of the Indy adherents. I picked her up. told her I loved her, and in a firm voice said, "Leah, say, 'yes, Julie'" She wouldn't. So I knew the next step would be to take her and spank her. As I was heading back to the bedroom, Julie whispered something in Lori's ear. I looked at them and said, "What?" Lori then whispered in my ear, "Julie doesn't want you to be surprised when you spank her that her bottom is bruised." Responding appropriately to them, I proceeded to the bedroom. My heart sank inside that I had allowed my daughter to go through this. Thankful for the seclusion for the room, I hugged Leah and told her I was so glad she was home. I then told her I don't want to spank her and I just want this to be over. I told her I was sorry she had to go through that. So, she went out there and said, "Yes, Julie". I was then free to hug her. Lori talked to someone on the phone back in Indy and I could here her singing my praises as to how I handled the situation. Dishonest? It's called fear and survival. And I wouldn't be surprised that more than half or the people in Mike's kingdom function this way. Three months later, we were invited to join up with some other Indy rejects in Phoenix, AZ...and the saga continued." "baxter"
For any unsuspecting public or seekers out there that might be attracted to the "net" of jesuslifetogether.com; heavenreigns.com; allathisfeet.com; and a myriad of other websites designed and created by Mike Peters and his gang, the Mike Peters of Knoxville, Tennessee IS the same Mike Peters of Indianapolis, IN that has caused MUCH spiritual devastation in the lives of many and continues to do so. "baxter"
If you need someone who understands whether you are in, out, or have someone in...I'm here. Christ.firstname.lastname@example.org "baxter"
Some of the original posting was lost. But most of what's important is here. So, I am going to repost the missing topic: Topic author: "baxter" Subject: You decide... Posted on: 07/22/2010 10:57:59 PM Message: Red comments are mine... http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/18551.html?1200341284 mike_indpls New member Username: mike_indpls Post Number: 11 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 220.127.116.11 Posted on Monday, June 05, 2006 - 9:13 pm: 4) It seems realllllly weird to me that I’m personally being scrutinized and attacked, while no one on this site is offering their financial assets, the spiritual condition of their marriage or childrenor parents or church. Isn’t that wierd? Though every person who has ever entered anything on this site has more money than I do, almost beyond any question (because sub-zero is hard to compete with)http://maps.google.com/maps?q=4500+lost+tree+drive,+indianapolis,+IN&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=4500+W+Lost+Tree+Dr,+Indianapolis,+IN+46268&gl=us&ei=WvpITOOZCJSmsQOJ7sn1DA&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBMQ8gEwAA (it's on the left hand side of Lost Tree, corner of Long Run Dr. 2 vans in driveway when you look at street view), some kind of pharisaical legal scrutiny is being applied to “poor mikey” that no one is dealing with themselves on publicly -- or applying to the thousands of guys who are milking religion for millions and millions of dollars (wonder how Mike makes his money?). Why aren’t we being honest across the board here? I’m happy to change anything and everything, and have taken many radical steps over the years to do just that. More are no doubt required, and I am not resistant. Should we compare your situation to mine, or to your “pastor’s” or other leaders? If we’re honest, we’ll all come up to the same Standard, right, without favoritism or dishonesty? There are discussion here criticizing automobiles and such? Doesn’t that strike anyone as legalistic? There are all kinds of cars better than mine around here and in every religious building’s parking lot in the nation. Wouldn’t it strike you as a little legalistic if I made a big deal about someone’s car who got a “nice company car” or was in sales and got a nicer car than mine? That’s ridiculous for me to scrutinize your car, unless you were wasting God’s money with a Rolls Royce or something ego-centric, and even the Rolls could be God’s Will for you in some odd circumstance or another (though worldliness and ego never would be acceptable.) So, what kind of criteria of judging others seems appropriate in this thread? Wow. I have never in my life told someone what kind of car they ought to have, or any such thing (a good manipulator knows how to make people "think" he didn't tell someone what kind of car they ought to have, or any such thing). If there is going to be such scrutiny, perhaps let’s, again, be even-handed and honest, with your own situations, 401k’s, automobiles, internet habits (have to be on the world wide web overtime to come up with this many sites... http://www.jesuslifetogether.com http://www.allathisfeet.com http://www.revolutiondancing.com http://www.hisemptygrave.com http://www.heavenreigns.com http://www.godthots.com http://www.housechurch.com http://www.hiswounds.com/ http://www.ekklesialife.com/ http://www.ekklesiachurchlife.com/ http://www.realglobalwarming.com/ http://www.homechurchmovement.com/ http://www.indianapoliscult.org ), and the like. "baxter" "baxter"
1. John F. and Bobbie M. (04/18/87) Officiator: (?); 2. Mike R. and Ellen N. (08-08-87) Officiator: (?); 3. Steve E. and Cindy K. (10-01-88) Officiator: (?); 4. Andrew R. and Sharon O. (01-13-90) Officiator: (?); 5. Chris Z. and Karen A. (02-03-90) Officiator: (?); 6. Bill F. and Julie O. (06-03-90) Officiator: (?); 7. Franz P. and Colleen K. (09-22-90) Officiator: Nick B. 8. Rick H. and Sara S. (03-09-91) Officiator: David F. 9. Jack C. and Carol S. (06-01-91) Officiator: Franz P. 10. Pete C. and Daneen Z. (06-15-91) Officiator: Nick B. 11. Rob D. and Cindy L. (06-29-91) Officiator: Nick B. 12. David W. and Dana F. (04-04-92) Officiator: David F. 13. David M. and Kathy E. (04-18-92) Officiator: Mike Peters. 14. David T. and Michelle S. (05-09-92) Officiator: Kevin M. 15. Dwayne G. and Janis G. (09-12-92) Officiator: Mike Peters. 16. Anthony L. and Linda L. (04-03-93) Officiator: Nick B. 17. Joshua C. and Angie G. (04-16-94) Officiator: Mike Peters. (1st of the children); 18. Jerry G. and Sheryl B. (07-01-95) Officiator: David F. 19. Brad F. and Mary B. (12-09-95) Officiator: David S. 20. Matt F. and Jenna G. (11-09-96) Officiator: Mike Peters. (2nd of the children); 21. Jason F. and Denise J. (06-04-97) Officiator: Bryan B. 22. George H. and Jennifer A. (08-01-97) Officiator:Nick B. (3rd of the children); 23. Andrew W. and Leah F. (07-10-03) Officiator: David F. (4th of the children); 24. Ben R. and Melissa P. (04/05/12) Officiator: Bryan B. (2nd generation); 25. Josh P.and Gabrielle H.(05/31/12) Officiator: Tim C. (2nd generation); 26. Lukas B. and Jessie B. (08/23/12) Officiator: Kevin M. (2nd generation); 27. Garrett Y. and Sarah W. (03/23/13) Officiator: David F. (2nd generation); 28. Daniel M. and Ginny B. (05/11/13) Officiator: Bryan B. (2nd generation); 29. Levi R. and Rebekah G. (05/18/13) Officiator: David F. (2nd generation); 30. Taylor B. and Ellen F. (06/01/2013) Officiator: Douglas E. (2nd generation); 31. Alexander S. and Laura M. (08/24/13) Officiator: Bryan B. (2nd generation); "baxter"
This article is a bit lengthy, but eerily similar to the way things evolved and transpired in Indy. With the groups exclusiveness and isolated environment, it's easy for the leaders to hide sinful behavior and to "explain away" why it's justified. I saw this numerous times how the same standard to which Mike held his adherents to did not apply to himself (e.g. golfing, internet, his relationship with the single woman that he'd been questioned about). I would not be surprised that lurking in the closet are skeletons of all sorts. http://www.startribune.com/local/256845191.html "baxter"
Mike Peters is so delusional, he thinks it's his job and his follower's job to see to it that others have an abundance of the Holy Spirit?????? WARNING: CONSUMPTION OF THE FOLLOWING CONTENTS HAS POTENTIAL TO CAUSE SPIRITUAL DEATH, DESPAIR, FAITHLESSNESS, NAUSEA AND VOMITING. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK. "Your Own Oil womens_role_gods_family.jpg Books.JesusLifeTogether.com Email link to this page Save PDF pdf icon This title is part of: Women's Role in God's Family Related items: The Parable of the Ten VirginsMP3 Votre Propre Huile Saturday Afternoon, December 9, 1995 A discussion with two saints making marriage covenant with each other and those who were sharing the time with them. “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish and five were wise. The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any extra oil with them. The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. The bridegroom was a long time in coming and they all became drowsy and fell asleep. At midnight the cry rang out, ‘Here’s the bridegroom. Come out to meet him.’ Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil. Our lamps are going out.’ ‘No’, they replied. ‘There may not be enough for both us and for you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’ But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The ones who were ready went in with them to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut. Later the others also came. ‘Sir, sir’, they said. ‘Open the door for us.’ But he replied, ‘I tell you the truth. I don’t know you.’ Therefore, keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.” (Matthew 25:1-13, NIV); As you know, JESUS is the bridegroom in this story. There is a song about this story and one line in that song talks about being ready for the Father to say, “Today your wedding day has come.” I don’t know if the song mentioned the virgins or I just thought of it, but it struck me really hard that the primary reason for having a relationship with someone, the primary reason this Church exists … is to make sure there is not a single person in our sphere of influence who doesn’t have oil, their own oil when the bridegroom comes. That’s why we are here. We are not here for the sake of entertainment. And, that’s why sometimes things are hard, or challenging, or difficult. That’s why hard things are said to us sometimes, and that’s why we have to say hard things to others. Those things happen. And why? Well, notice the context of that teaching in Matthew 25. There’s the parable of the sheep and the goats and the parable of the talents. These are very serious things that Jesus is saying again and again. He is saying, “Please, I beg you. Be ready. Be ready.” Being a nice person isn’t good enough. There were ten virgins—not five virgins and five immoral people. There were ten virgins. Were they all human? Sure, they all fell asleep. They were all just normal people. But the difference was that five of them were ready. Five were prepared. They had stocked their own oil, and they were ready. They had something for themselves that was stored up against that Day, while others were sloppy or lazy about it. Our primary job with each other, with everyone we know (whether there are 300, 3,000 or 300,000 in the Church that Jesus has put us in), is to “see to it brothers that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart” (Hebrews 3:12). See to it, brothers, that every last one of you has oil. Make sure your lamp is burning brightly, you have your own oil, and you can face Jesus with some true Life inside of you—not just a goodlife. In the story Jesus told, a good life didn’t make it. That wasn’t enough in that case. Make sure there is something real, something tangible, the oil of God flowing in us and through us and out of us—not just survivors. The “survivors” didn’t survive. They didn’t make it. As sincere as they were, they didn’t make it. Our primary job with each other is to make sure that everyone has oil—to make sure that no one is too lazy to gather and store the oil, and to make sure that no one burns their oil on selfishness and pride, or fear of failure before God or man. Make sure that you are not burning up all of your oil on stupid, foolish, silly, worldly personality things and not wanting God’s Will for your life. When you are living like that, it makes you fight, fight, fight against God’s Will… or, you don’t want to devote yourself to other people because they might hurt you or something. We know where each other’s struggles lie. Part of being family is that we know where the struggles are. We know where the challenges are. But we can’t be afraid to face each other courageously and say, “You have to have oil. You have to! I’m going to fight for you to have oil so there are no surprises on judgment day.” What’s the purpose of a marriage? It’s to help someone in very close proximity to have a whole truckful of oil. That’s the purpose. Marriage is not for our entertainment. It does not exist so that we can be happy, so that we can be satisfied, so that all our needs can be met. Whatever things come our way along those lines, that’s wonderful. It’s a gift of God. He loves to give good gifts to His children. But that’s not the purpose of marriage. The reason marriage exists, the reason God Sovereignly put you in that relationship (whether that relationship is marriage, some other form of deep relationship, or even a sort of cursory/superficial relationship), is that He has called us to make sure everyone has oil… and to fight for each other in that way. I commission you in Jesus’ name not to let having a good time with each other be your primary objective. Rather, make sure each of you, individually, has oil. Make sure you are passionate to see that the other has that oil, and for what children God may grace you with to have that oil too. Also, help each other help others around you have that oil, and commission each other to go out and multiply and fill the earth with oil so that satan drowns in God’s Holy Spirit oil. That’s God’s call. That’s why we are here, and that’s the future that you are vowing to one another in marriage. That’s the future we have vowed to each other in all of the relationships God has given us. It’s not for our entertainment. It’s not so we can be happy, or so we can enjoy this or that. If that happiness comes, it comes. But the main issue is—will we help each other not be taken by surprise when the Bridegroom comes back? Will we help each other to have lots and lots and lots of oil? Because, as Jesus made clear, you can’t borrow from someone else on that day! You can’t borrow someone else’s oil. It has to be yours. It has to come because you have developed that oil. You birthed that life in Jesus and it’s real, and you’ve not burnt up your oil on some other selfish pursuit. When you are busy having an attitude about something, can’t you feel the oil burning up? Can’t you, in your heart, feel it burning, burning away when you have a judgment of someone? When you are being selfish or you are being deceitful can’t you feel that oil burning up inside of yourself? I can. When I have those attitudes, when I have reactions, I feel God’s Holy Oil burning up, and it causes my heart to panic… in the right way. I’m not going to burn up my oil on anything. I want to be ready when He comes. I’ve made my share of mistakes, but I want to be ready when He comes. I want to make this point. When the Father says, “Son, your wedding day has come,” there will be five virgins—not five Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus—but five people who are there waiting for Jesus, who will be surprised because they don’t have oil of their own. It’s our job to see to it brothers and see to it sisters, within the beautiful relationships that He has given us and is giving you now and in the future… that each one has an abundance of oil, and that we help each other to help others do that too. 12/9/1995" He condemns a LOT of people in his take on the Lord's teachings. He's made himself the judge of us all. Mike himself excluded of course. Because judges are not doers of the law, but a judge of it. "baxter"
Topic Poster: "baxter"
Topic Subject: Speaking of Mike Peters and his marionettes...
Total Replies: 1
This is a pretty serious matter before God. And this is typical fruit on Mikey's tree: Ezekiel 34:44 Those who are sickly you have not strengthened, the diseased you have not healed, the broken you have not bound up, the scattered you have not brought back, nor have you sought for the lost; but with force and with severity you have dominated them. "baxter"
Apparently, in order to support Mike's golfing idolatry and his useless proselytizing around the world to make one twice the son of hell as he is, followers are encouraged to go into debt with the promise that they will be blessed. Well, I know a family who has seen the light come out with an overwhelming amount of debt that they are left to on their own. Good going, Mikey. You just keep ruining people's lives as you indulge yourself. "baxter"
My heart is broken as I hear story upon story of the devastating experiences shared by those under Mike Peters's rule and authority. He will have plenty to answer for. I hope he knows that. For just as Abel's blood cried out from the ground, there are many voices crying out from the pain and abuse inflicted by him who thinks he's God's answer to the world, yet hides himself in a golfing community with a concubine and a wife who's miserable. There is so much oppression it isn't funny. Women who are so traumatized they won't even leave their houses. Women being coerced into believing they are not even born again. What's interesting about the last thing is this: the husband is not an elder, but "one of the seven" as he's described in "The night of the seven", derived from Acts 6. They have been in existence for at least a quarter of a century and it took these "discerning" men THIS long to access whether or not the wife of one "full of faith and of the Holy Spirit" was born again? The mental health of many are on the verge of collapse. How long can one exist in an environment of perpetual joylessness, control, lovelessness, etc. They have completely severed themselves from the outside world, "physical phamily", and from God. There is no support system, no where to go to confide. It's no wonder that the carnage is atheism. They have been living in the group for years and have seen NO POWER!!! NO ABILITY TO OVERCOME SIN!!! Mike won't let them. He won't let them RISE because he needs to keep his control and heavy hand on him so he can pursue his pleasures and idolatries. It's truly heinous what is happening. I can't even begin to do the horrors justice here. "baxter"